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RSSTen things Linux distros get right (that MS doesn’t)
I use Windows and Linux every day. They’re both competent operating systems, each with reasonable applications and windowing systems. I find myself more productive on a Linux system, though, because of a few very simple differences.
So what are the differences?
- A useful terminal emulator. So what if it’s only useful for developers: I’m a developer. I like a terminal with capable cut-and-paste, tabs, and resizing.
- All-in-one application sources. Man, I love my
apt(oryum, or distro-specific tool of choice). Finding and downloading applications for Windows is a crap-shoot in almost every way. I find this especially handy when building new systems: it takes far longer to build, update, and add needed applications on a Windows system than on most Linux systems. - Cut-and-paste, and focus handling. Middle-click cut-and-paste is even more useful than middle-clicking a URL to a new tab, and XWindows does scroll-wheel window focusing right (scrolls the window under the cursor).
- Frequent, painless patches and new stuff, all the time. I’ve had a 3d desktop (compiz) and funky search (deskbar) for more than a year now (and I avoid the bleeding edge).
- Multi-desktops. Using a single desktop now is a lot like working at a grade-school desk: it’s just too small to be useful.
- Good, free tools. Like vim (or emacs). I know they’re old and crusty, but they both live and breathe text editing.
- No reboots. I rarely have to reboot a Linux system when patching. Windows is getting better about reboots, but they’re still too frequent.
- Open formats and protocols. My stuff (and my network) is mine, locking my stuff in proprietary, costly formats doesn’t work for me.
- No need for paranoia. I don’t like the anti-malware tax: the cost, the CPU cycles, and the wasted fear. Signed application bundles are a big part of how Linux gets this right: you don’t have to fear installing new stuff (the rest is in frequent patching and limiting possible damage).
- Respect. Don’t tell me what or how to do it: give me choices. And don’t treat me like a criminal, because I’m not.
Update - Someone dugg me, though the server is holding up well (thanks Dreamhost). Remember folks, top 10 lists are for fun.
Update - 2007 - Someone dugg me again. I guess Digg users have a short memory.
Also check out Three more things Linux does right (or that Windows does grossly wrong).
December 30th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Several of your complaints about windows can be rectified by downloading powertoys for windows, which are a free download from Microsoft.com. You can get multiple desktops and use X windows type wheel scrolling from them.
December 30th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
Very nice rundown
December 30th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
Amen brother… Amen.
December 30th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
I use linux on a daily basis, but I have to disagree with a couple of your points:
2) it’s not hard to find good windows apps. You don’t need a program like apt, because for the most part, you can find almost any kind of app you need already (there are thousands of freeware and shareware apps for windows on the internet).
6) There are many good free editors and tools for windows. I have always felt that emacs is a bit overkill.
8) open formats are operating system independent. Open source developers should start writing more applications for windows.
9) eventually, if linux gets to the popularity level of windows, it will have malware issues.
10) If you violate the GNU, you will still be treated like a criminal (which is just as mad as the BSA in my opinion). What choices with windows don’t you have? You can still install windows and load it up with all open source apps.
Something linux is missing is the ability for developers to write commercial applications (I haven’t seen many successful, commercial, linux apps). This is an important driving force for any operating system.
December 30th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
Amen, brutha. The excellent terminal in Linux and OS X is such a huge advantage over Windows, not just for developers. We administrators need it too :).
I’m really dissapointed at the lack of virtual desktops in Vista. There was an official M$ powertoy for virtual desktops in XP. There are 3rd party apps that do it. It seems like such a basic necessity these days.
I have a virus scanner on my main box (XP SP1, just never got around to that SP2 thing…) that runs every once in a while just for fun. I find that running a locked down system and not using IE on a relatively secured network means nothing gets in. I don’t open BS email (even if she tells me she loves me) and I haven’t reinstalled my OS or had a serious problem since… well, XP release.
December 30th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
1 - I agree
2 - crapshoot - how - it might have spyware/spamware installed. If so I agree
3 - I agree
4 - I think both do this fine.
5 - I agree - nview or something can do multi-desktops too
6 - I agree
7 - what is wrong with a reboot here or there?
8 - I agree
9 - What! Thats what i need my duo core for.
10 - choices - Linux may be good for you and I - but your average user, its like giving them a hand grenade with many pins. Limited choices can be a good thing - I still agree - but with a grain of salt.
December 30th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
beautifully said
December 30th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
Amen.
December 30th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
I call BS on this list. Like #4. How are you using compiz without being on the bleeding edge? I was only able to get compiz/beyrl working correctly after going through numerous howto’s and forums messages to solve strange bugs (granted it was with an ATI card on a laptop) on Ubuntu Edgy. Fedora Core 6 was released in October. So do tell how you manage this magical feat?
December 30th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
There’s vim/vi for windows.
December 30th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
Compiz on Ubuntu, with Automatix (for the NVidia drivers) was simple (I’m a developer). It helps to have hardware that’s well supported, and more than a decade of ‘nix experience.
December 30th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Well said, very very well, I agree with all you said except for the “useful terminal” as I find it easier to run and install, remove, find, edit most things thru the terminal though I am not a developer.
As to the comment posted by Eric on performing “magical feats”
I think that it is alot easier to get it running on a nvidia card (as that is what I have and probably this guy as well) Then they tried giving instructions for people using the ATI card. So should an easier set of instructions have been made for the nvidia and ati card right from the start? Of course but then again we don’t live in a perfect world.
December 30th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
Amen. Wtf is with all you guys saying Amen? I just find it really irritating :)
December 30th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
2: Yeah, right. When there’s a properly made package, all is well. When you have to install something in parts, it’s a disaster. Install scripts not updated or inadequately commented, pointers to things that aren’t there (oh, you meant libXY.so.1, not libXY.so? It only took me three hours to find that out!), mutually destructive contributed software, forgotten requirements (oh, yeah, you need Like::HoleInHead), etc., etc. I’ve been through it too many times.
6: I use vim on both Windows and Linux. It’s the best thing since sliced bread on both. It’s a free download from vim.org.
December 30th, 2006 at 10:50 pm
“A useful terminal. So what if it’s only useful for developers: I’m a developer. I like a terminal with capable cut-and-paste, tabs, and resizing.”
I’m definitely not a developer and I find the terminal infinitely handy. If I’m compiling a bit of hard-to-find software and I need to grab a slew of dependencies, the terminal is about 20 times as fast as Synaptic or Yumex. Just “aptitude install foo” and you’re done.
Also, finding files according to a regular expression and piping it around? I don’t care how much GTK and Cairo love you pour on that particular application, the terminal is still the better option ;).
December 30th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
i agree for the most part. the only thing that ever has and seems to always will keep me away from full on Ubuntu is gaming. BTW nice weblog, i added you to my blogroll.
December 30th, 2006 at 10:54 pm
Whatever,
1) Your a geek, only about 5% of computer users are geeks and 95% could care less about terminal or what those other 5% like. Terminal is so….1970s. Using terminal
a) takes longer than using a mouse
b) less productive since one is limited only to commands available to the shell
c) most of the time spent by users on their PCs can’t be done in terminal due to it’s limitations
2)Yea, APT is great. But not better than using google to find the app you want if you don’t know that 99% of them can be downloaded from download.com , Microsoft.com or other sites. Source files? Yea, lets all spend time compiling… this is so much more productive than just running the executable on windows. Source files are also larger than binaries pre-built for Windows.
3) sure, if that makes you happy. I’m quite happy with Cntrl-c Cntrl-v
4)Patches..
a) are not pointless, they fix “Stuff” and help protect YOU from security nightmares.
b) critical patches happen on Windows less often than they do on most Linux distros because code doesn’t go through the same amount of use and review (internal and external)
c) you can avoid bleeding edge, but then why bother with modern computing? Why don’t use use an ancient 100mhz pc since you need terminal and avoid bleeding edge?
5) I have always found multiple desktops pointless and mainly used by people with poor organization skills.
6) vim and emacs useful, free tools? If you like to fix broken scripts and change all the numerous config files - then sure, they are as useful as any other text editor. Others would rather have their stuff just run like it does on OS X and Windows…with no need for aditional configs and visits to “community support” forums
7) I don’t reboot my windows machine for months… Once it is setup - it just runs. Yes, i do have to reboot to apply SOME patches, but to me this is no different than taking your services off line to apply new config or update the files. Taking something off line is just that, no mater how you slice it.
8) have no idea what you’ve heard about Windows, but it uses same protocols to connect to servers and peer computers, to connect to VPN, internet, set time from time servers, etc. Check it out - the concepts are called “interoperability”, “common protocols”, “cross-platform” software and protocols.
I personally have yet to figure out what “locked” protocols run on my windows PC that do not run on my Gentoo server…
9) You don’t like the paranoia tax? So you do no do logging, no alerting, no thresholding triggering, no emailing of reports, no disk/memory/net traffic/cpu monitoring? If you don’t - you should. It may tell you something useful about your system (like people gaining access to your box because you didn’t patch OpenSSH for a known exploit, or ProFTPD hole… )
10) Sounds like paranoia to me…but i’ll let you have this one :)
I run 3 systems on daily basis - Windows (personal PC), OS X (work), Gentoo (personal server). They are all great and can do anything i want them to do. And from using all three I’ve learned one simple, yet important fact - if you can’t do something on one of them (not because there is no software, but for other reasons ) - well, you are not doing it right. And by the way all systems have their purposes - for Windows it is to run on more than 90% of all computers in the world used by regular people, for all flavors of unix and linux - to run servers, and OS X - do both of those with style!
I’ve written about 10 common misconceptions about linux too - just follow the URL
http://www.hypersensory.com/linuxvswindows
December 30th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
I have to confess brothers that I have taken the easy life, I use OS X. Having worked with Linux since using Redhat 5.2 to implement clustered CCD based pedestrian tracking systems… I was there when KDE 3 impressed us all, I was there when Easel was there on Cnet claiming to revolutionise the Gui way of thinking. I have suffered under dependency hell, oh and under I have worked in a windows dominant world.. having to write scipts to just make my darn windows mount automatic.
I say respect brothers, Ubuntu is an amazing Distro, Suse.. Well I used to like Suse. It’s so close you can almost feel it, but Linux does do many things better that windows.. An online catalog of software that is installable at a touch of a button… floppy windows, useless as all hell but nothing says “You just jolly watch out Vista” than floppy paper like windows.. THAT STICK TO EACH OTHER!!
… respect…. we have earned respect brothers…
…I just wish the women of this world would have sex with us because of it.
December 30th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
It’s not just developers who find the terminal useful. I dunno a thing about programming (I’ve played around with Python, but never into making real programs), but if find the terminal much more useful than DOS command prompt.
Install program? Just ‘apt-get’ it! I love it! It’s so much faster than googling the program, download it and install it. This is something that you can’t do in DOS.
December 30th, 2006 at 11:49 pm
I use both Linux and Windows and i find that in general Linux is slightly better for me (I’m a Java Developer/DBA at my job). However i will say that the main point here is that Windows is not building it’s system for us (developers)… they are building it for my grandmother and parents. My parents still think that they have to open a web browser or they aren’t connected to their cable internet connection.
As much as we’d like to think that world is computer savvy… it is not. In 10 or 20 years we should be in a great place in terms of general computer knowledge but that time has not yet come. I think Microsoft tends to think along business lines to say “Developers will know how to alter the system to make it work for them” which is what most of us do.
December 30th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
mac osx tiger for developing (things just work … and oh the keyboard!)
openbsd4 for my servers
i use vi/m - virtually always available in any console
stick to plain text and html+css+js for cross-platform formats
stay bsd and reluctantly lgpl to avoid gnu thingies
and yes, you can make a powerpoint using html+css+js and it opens fine in mac/windows/linux/bsd
sure there are a lot of things to learn but u end up better
December 31st, 2006 at 1:42 am
“No reboots. I rarely have to reboot a Linux system when patching. Windows is getting better about reboots, but they’re still too frequent.”
hell yeah they get better, now we have to reboot for most software branded Microsoft AT LEAST once.
Installing a chat client ? reboot.
Installing a browser ? reboot. twice :>
What about being taken for a complete idiot ? To often when I want to make an action in a Microsoft software, it stops me on my tracks to ask me stupid question that only a girlfriend would ask.. “Are you sure ?”, “Did you just click that to make that ?”. Yes I did click intentionally on the F*$!% button, and yes I’m sure. Just do it and stfu dammit.
And what about the notification madness ? It’s the new trend or what ? It’s seems like every single software I install HAS to be in my system tray. It also has to notify me for every trivial actions it makes. Do I have to be notified 30 times a month that my updates have been made ? Couldn’t it just notify me when the update failed or something ?
I feel better now.. slightly :1
December 31st, 2006 at 2:03 am
Very nice list!
I think you’re on to something there, with the apt + hashes = security idea.
December 31st, 2006 at 2:07 am
And dont forget that every config file is in plain text, so that you -can- edit them if you want too.
December 31st, 2006 at 2:14 am
While it is true that open source projects such as Mozilla Firefox advance Microsoft product features and their introduction Linux remains not as influential or reaches anywhere the market influence and penetration it should.
Linux is a toy for programmers to endlessly play with.
Until Linux becomes simple and functional for standard even inexperienced users it will not be mainstream.
True in the hands of an experienced user Linux can be more than exceptionally powerfull but as a non functional system for simple users it is a car stuck in the mud and will not be mainstream.
December 31st, 2006 at 3:17 am
These kind of arguments are pointless…
They actually do more harm to the open source community and the uptake of Linux as an OS as a whole by ‘dissing’ Windows, a product used by 90% of desktop users worldwide.
The entire ‘elitist’ attitude by Linux users making all Windows users out to be stupid and computer illiterate will do little to convince existing users to make the switch.
Why not concentrate on improving Linux until ’stupid windows users’ are able to make use of it with the same ease of use they are used to.
Only then will Linux be able to claim it’s rightful place on the desktop.
December 31st, 2006 at 4:11 am
December 31st, 2006 at 4:59 am
If windows work, ok it works.
but if something goes wrong you have panic.
you just don’t know where the problem is.
1: I’m i doing something wrong ?
2: Is it a problem with my program ?
3: Is it a bug in windows.
4: Is it not allowed by DRM or what ever.
5: Is it not allowed in the philosophy of M$
Point 5 is the biggest problem of all.
M$ can’t make a choice between Desktop or Server oriented computing.
Take the “loading your desktop settings” message.
It only load’s my icons … Haha .. thats all folks.
Not your language,
Not your Programs,
If you switch to a other computer in the office your left with a broken system.
December 31st, 2006 at 5:33 am
“I have always found multiple desktops pointless and mainly used by people with poor organization skills.”
Well said, bravo Maki! Contrary to the claims of the original post, it is clear that not including virtual desktops is something which Windows got right and Linux got wrong. The sorts of people who find these tools useful for organisation should go on a course instead of using them as a crutch.
Indeed, this sort of thing is epidemic within Linux. The terminal another thing which Linux actually got wrong and MS got right. The sooner that the geeks get with the modern way of doing things, the better. Like virtual desktops, the terminal is a sign of someone who just has to do things their own way instead of doing the same thing as everyone else, and nothing good ever came of that sort of thing.
December 31st, 2006 at 5:36 am
There are there abouts to 100 reasons, this just covers the top 10 ;).
December 31st, 2006 at 5:38 am
… and proofreading is a crutch for people who can’t get with the times and just submit corrections later on!
s/the terminal another/the terminal is another/
s/the terminal is a sign/using the terminal is a sign/
December 31st, 2006 at 5:42 am
I disagree with #9. I still need paranoia to burn CDs on one older machine. :)
December 31st, 2006 at 5:46 am
I still using Window$ cos i like pc games , linux is poor
December 31st, 2006 at 5:52 am
I am a hardcore UN*X user, but also use Windows in my daily job for software development (mostly using VMware).
your first point was wrong; they have… Powershell (formerly known as MSH or Monad). it is available as an update. But it is a shell which I most of the also consider even better than the standard terminal of Linux (xterm + bash). Powershell is easily to extend using .NET code and everything is consider an object… it is not stream piping, but object pipelining.
December 31st, 2006 at 6:23 am
a) Yeah? Try doing this in your GUI:
find . -name “*.out” | xargs grep -v “ignore” | sort
b) I don’t get that one.
c) Or that one.
The OP said he was a developer; obviously the list of what the OP prefers will be biased in that direction.
If you really want to be pedantic, most users need only a web browser and maaaaybe a WYSIWIG document/image thinger-upper, and everybody’s life would be much easier (and faster) if people stopped using general-purpose computers for one or two tasks.
December 31st, 2006 at 6:32 am
Well, cut&paste is not exactly right in Linux. I’ve always been confused with ctrl-c/ctrl-v and mouse cut/paste. Some apps know this, some apps know that, some apps know both.
CONFUSING!!!
December 31st, 2006 at 6:46 am
Maki Says:
“Whatever,
1) Your a geek, only about 5% of computer users are geeks and 95% could care less about terminal or what those other 5% like. Terminal is so….1970s. Using terminal
a) takes longer than using a mouse
b) less productive since one is limited only to commands available to the shell
c) most of the time spent by users on their PCs can’t be done in terminal due to it’s limitations”
December 31st, 2006 at 6:46 am
I am an average home desktop user. I switched to Linux in 2000 because of the blue screen of death. I found that Linux was no more difficult than windows, but Linux had advantages for me. Apt-get, free software, no rebooting, few crashes, resistance to viruses, and so on.
For day to day work, applications such as open office make ing using Linux much the same as using windows, but without the hassel and ‘ms tax’.
December 31st, 2006 at 7:02 am
Spinning desktops stand aside, there are just two words that mean I can never go back to Windows - “On Top”.
For Microsoft users, this means that I can right click a window, click “on top” and it stays on top. You can scroll a web browser underneath a text editor with out going back to the start bar every five seconds.
Your life will never be the same again!
December 31st, 2006 at 7:04 am
You can always use putty for windows. You can also run vim on windows. You can also have multiple desktops for windows - in fact, I think msft patented the idea of multiple desktops.
To one of the posters: msft treats users like crimminals even if they don’t violate the EULA. It’s just standard operating procedure in redmond. To say that GPL enforcement is as bad as the BSA is absurd.
December 31st, 2006 at 7:12 am
One thing missing - the filesystem quality and choices. IMO, NTFS is crap compared to ReiserFS or XFS.
And how the file caching is done - sometimes I’m starting Eclipse like mad (plugin development), and that’s just faster on Linux.
December 31st, 2006 at 7:15 am
You obviously haven’t heard of PowerShell, a lot more advanced shell than any that has FOSS ever produced. It’s based on objects and not on ancient text and regexp technology.
What happens if you don’t have your favorite app in repository? You are again on your own, finding URLs to feed in to your precioussss apt. Still, Windows has dedicated pages like windowsmarketplace.com and download.com and it’s very easy to find app for anyone’s particular need. Also not knowing how to use google.com is no excuse. (yet, I’ll get some credit to apt/synaptic for some friendliness in implementation)
NT always supported multiple desktops. It’s (probably) just MS’s policy not to confuse users with a lot of desktops and possible mess that can come with inexperienced user loosing his apps. However if you want you can get your multiple desktops here for free - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx under ‘Virtual Desktop Manager’.
Well I had emacs on my XP box. Also there exist windows versions of Vim as there are versions of all popular FOSS apps on windows: firefox, apache, openoffice, gimp, bash (and other traditional unix shells), blender3d. There is with no doubt a wealth of FOSS apps for every task you can imagine under windows. Also you can install Cygwin or MS’s UNIX subsystem to run native UNIX (POSIX) applications.
I don’t know why I don’t have such observations. Almost all apps under XP will work even if you don’t restart your box as (some bigger) apps sometimes suggest.
Well, I agree this can sometimes be problem :). What does trouble you?
I have unprotected unpatched Win XP and somehow (I really don’t know why - this must be miracle, alleluia) I don’t have any virus. Now seriously - you probably haven’t heard about the term ‘PEBKAC’ - well look into Wikipedia. And it wouldn’t be too hard to persuade someone to install ‘Emoticon-for-gaim’ (and run it under root), would be?
Well, the only one who is oppressing people is FOSS people. Namely FSF and RMS people. You have ever wondered why on their pages all comments to their article always agree with them? :D It’s Stalinistic. They have deleted all my comments (2) with zero profanity in them just because I didn’t agree with few points in article. In contrary - so called dictators and oppressors in MS have forums on which you can freely talk about Linux, try to persuade them to use FOSS and bash MS and nobody will censure or ban you for that matter.
So thank you for some good ol’ Windows bashing words. I am really proud of you.
Oh yeah, uncyclopedia has some fine article about linux users (try to read it):
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Linux_pride
“just because you have a personal coding output of zero doesn’t mean that you can’t take full credit for the programming genius of others for a lifestyle of Slashdot, caffeine and masturbation.”
December 31st, 2006 at 7:36 am
Im sorry to say this, but you are not a regular windows user. And i say this cause most of the things you mention are NOT true. Ill leave an example:
Windows HAS multi desktop enviroment. Problem is the same ppl in microsoft that decided that a tabbed browser would be confusing, thought multi desktop would also be. So its disabled.
BUT multi desktop is there, but hidden.
There are loads of apps to do that. Most NVIDIA drivers use windows multi desktop. I use them since windows 2000, back in 2002.
As in all good articles, PLEASE fundament properly before you post garbage.
December 31st, 2006 at 7:48 am
Maki, your responses show your lack of knowledge in linux technologies.
1) some things take longer than using a mouse, but many do not. run an application with a file as an argument… or… open the app, click “Open File”, move some directories, “ah, found my file”. It’s only “less productive” on windows. Most linux apps and scripts accept arguments out the hole. Win apps not so much. Limitations gone, I spend about 40% of my time at a terminal at least
2) apt is amazing. apt-cache search {keyword} and i’ve searched the repos. I can do a significant amount of searching all straight from my terminal. I don’t have to go through all the crap on download.com or microsoft.com that’s littered with spyware, or marked as freeware when it’s really shareware or crippleware. As for source, what distro have you used? Ubuntu/Debian, Redhat/Fedora, and Suse/OpenSuse all use binaries, but you can get the source. Gentoo, one of the few remaining big distros using source, advises using distcc/mosix (what geek doesn’t have multiple computers?). Are you comparing Windows to 1994 slackware?
3) pasting, as you have mentioned is just preference. I also like ctrl-c/v, and that should just be UI options.
4)Patches..
patches are great and all, but windows update blows. Why does every single app use it’s own updater in windows. WU needs an API so all the different apps dont need their own updaters. As for the “critical patches” happening on Win less than Linux, that’s just FUD from MS’s GetTheFacts campaign which was so inaccurate that it was banned in Britain. Bleeding edge is relative. He’s using a 3d rendered desktop, which has been out and pretty stable on linux for months, but you can’t get on Win for another month. He’s talking about bleeding edge relative to Linux, not Win
5) Multiple desktops rule. I have 4 split up for - Web, Chat, Multimedia, Office. Then I have tilda which is a dropdown terminal across all desktops, and my alt-tab auto-switches across desktops. I’m much more organized than you.
6) I haven’t ever had to change any configs for “broken” apps, and I’m a dev who’s primed linux for quite a while. As for community support, gentoo forums are the best linux docs on the web. Windows has nothing that compares - not even from MS.
7) “I don’t reboot my windows machine for months”. Installing most apps requires a reboot, and every single update tuesday requires a reboot. Stop spreading misinformation. As for taking services off line, /etc/init.d/apache2 restart takes literally 2 seconds. No windows machine reboots in 2 seconds.
8) You haven’t read about how Vista doesn’t trust you with your own data, and how video and audio will be encrypted across your own system to keep you out of it? As for file formats, all I have to say is Office and html. Office has multiple programs that claim to save files as html (Word, Excel, Onenote, and the now discontinued Frontpage). The source is completely unreadable. You also may not know, but MS formats (doc, ppt, xls, mhtml) have not adhered to ANY standards nevermind ISO.
9) Logging, alerts, triggers, and monitoring are much better in linux than they are in Win. conky anyone? You missed the point because he’s talking more about how your WGA calls home all the time, and how Vista will be making sure that you can’t access your own files except for in ways that media companies tell you
10) WGA locked out a ton of people who bought their systems even from reputable vendors. Vista will be putting you inside a maximum security walled garden just to keep you from accessing your own data in ways that the media companies allow.
I’ve administrated 2 computer labs, and an entire office. Currently, I have a laptop that primes ubuntu edgy with winxpt on dual boot. I have a mythtv box, a desktop running ubuntu edgy, and a headless box running ubuntu as a server. Maybe your gentoo box is out of date, because you seem to compare 2006 Win to 1995 Linux. As for fixing configs and such on updates, that’s the exact reason I left gentoo for ubuntu.
as for your article, the link doesnt work. mine does though:
http://www.djlosch.com/post_retrieve.php?pid=61
December 31st, 2006 at 7:58 am
I don’t want to feed the troll, but Maki, you can gather your check at this address.
December 31st, 2006 at 8:46 am
as for terminal, tools coming with Windows are indeed quite spartan.
but you can install so-called ‘file manager’ console application — for example, FAR Manager (farmanager.com) — and i find it even more productive than unix console! it has built-in very good editor, with syntax coloring (available through plugin), and there are lots of plugins — archive support, FTP, SFTP.. lots. so this single application fixes most Windows infriedliness. or you can install Emacs, that’s environment of it’s own too
December 31st, 2006 at 8:51 am
3 is why i can’t use Win any more ;)
Linux is for developers
MacOS is for others, i think (hadn’t used ,yet ;)
December 31st, 2006 at 8:52 am
Maki: You’re completely wrong about the terminal. That’s the beauty of UNIX and other UNIX-variants (such as Linux). Almost everything you can do with a GUI you can do with the terminal. Want to find something? Instead of clicking Search, just use the command
findin the terminal. Want to resize an image? Use ImageMagick like so:convert rose.jpg -resize 50% rose.png. Tada! There’s even a functional calendar that works in the console (google for cl-cal).You can also send email from the command line with Pine or other clients. Example of a Pine command:
pine a@b.c -attach rose.png < echo "testing!". To do the same in GUI email clients you would have to click to start them up, click to enter the email address (or click the address book and click to find it), and then click attach file, click around till you find your file, and then click close, then you have to click and enter your message, then you have to click Send and then you have to click to close. That’s a lot of clicks just to type a few words to a person…Anyway, I think you can understand my point that the command line is as powerful as the GUI and even more so because it offers WAY more options.
December 31st, 2006 at 9:50 am
Ah, the comparison of Windows and Linux. Is it like Apple versus Orange?
You can cut and paste using DOS prompt, you can write scripts (like Python or Perl or VBScripts, or Window Script whatever) for Windows.
I use FreeBSD so I definitely use ports a lot. But what happen when your app is not in the port? That means you have to search it by yourself, configure the params one by one, compile it (and hope it didn’t produce compile errors), and I don’t know how to remove it.. I guess you have to remove it manually no ?
It’s even mind-boggling how one Window manager compares to the other in the Linux arena. At least Windows has standards shortcut key. Please don’t bring Usability issue, obviously Linux has more than Windows.
I’ve never gotten any painful patches in Windows, seriously, just wait till the Windows updater downloaded and installed the patches and all you need to do is to choose whether you want to reboot now or later (which doesn’t really matter much).
Multi desktop? single desktop? get a second and third monitor. Multi desktop s is just a glorified single desktop. Two monitors increase productivity.
Tons of free stuffs in Windows, Eclipse (supported very well compare in Linux), VIM, Emacs, XEmacs, GIMP, Paint.NET (ya don’t have this one in Linux), GAIM, Google Earth (I haven’t tried the Linux version, sluggish?), go search at Download.com, that’s your central repositories for Windows (plus it has detailed information from other users, unlike debian apt)
Last time I didn’t reboot my home-server running FreeBSD, its hard-drive blew up. A machine needs some time to be turned off just like human needs some sleep. Unless if you don’t care if your hard disk blew up and you have to back up most of your stuffs again (and waste time), I guess just let your machine runs 24/7.
By the way, you still need to reboot your Linux machine when you started to feel that the machine is going slower around the weekend.
Open formats and protocols? Ummm, 95% of the computer users are using Windows. I know you’re trying to break free from vendor lock-in. I agree that it’s nice if we all can open our documents in ANY applications. But this doesn’t mean MS doesn’t get it right. They did get it right FOR their own business.
Malware? I thought you said you’re a developer? not someone who installed a lot of useless apps or viewed porn websites. All you need for your jobs are software development tools and I doubted you need a non-mainstream tools.
Any law you break, you’re a criminal. Even if you break the GNU law or the BSD law (or the Apache law). Now the better question is: can you follow the law?
Note: I run FreeBSD and use Windows.
December 31st, 2006 at 10:03 am
All-in-one application sources are dumb, dumb, dumb. I much prefer downloading OS X application bundles directly from the developer than hoping as I do in Ubuntu that someone has been kind enough to update the repository. What’s annoying in both Windows and Linux is having to “install” and “uninstall” software instead of just downloading, moving around, and deleting the single file that is the entire application.
December 31st, 2006 at 10:05 am
To the morons who are disagreeing with the author:
The terminal IS faster than using a mouse, if you know how to use it. If you can do something with your mouse, you can do it in the terminal, I guarantee it. Except for 3D games, of course.
Finding an app in Linux that does what you want is as easy as
$ apt-cache search whateveryouwantThat will search the repository of roughly 20,000 apps, for whatever you want.To do an update in Windows, you ave to go to their website, install the update manager stuff, validate your Windows crap with a little .exe, and then you can update (and reboot)
In a Linux distro using apt, you get all of that preinstalled, and it just says “# updates Available.” You click install, enter your password, and then they’re up and running. Unless you’re recompiling your kernel, you’ll never have to reboot.
I use multiple desktops, and I stay organized. I have 4 desktops. One for Firefox, one for text tools (OpenOffice, vim, etc.,) one for personal stuff, like Gaim and Rhythmbox, and then one for development and such, like Python and the terminal.
You just don’t like vim because you don’t know how to use it. If you knew how, I guarantee it would become the most useful tool on your system.
The thing with Linux and rebooting, is that when you run an app in Linux, it loads the binaries into the RAM. That way, you can modify anything, you can even delete the program, and it will still run until clear the RAM. This is useful, because you can modify programs (updates, patches) and then just reload the program, and it’s working. The only time you need to reboot in Linux is if you recompile the kernel.
Now this is just ridiculous. Linux uses OpenSSH, Windows doesn’t. Linux uses open-source network drivers, etc.
What? Are you crazy? OpenSSH and ProFTPd are thousands of times more secure than MS’s RDP.
And most importantly, @ Justin Silverton
“Something linux is missing is the ability for developers to write commercial applications (I haven’t seen many successful, commercial, linux apps). This is an important driving force for any operating system.”
Oh. Apparently Apache, PHP and MySQL (open-source apps) that serve over 70% of the pages you go to aren’t successful and used commercially. Shall I continue? OpenOffice.org, GNUCash, Firefox, MediaWiki, Blender 3D. What?! More?! SourceForge.net, Samba, PostgreSQL, SQLite, and GNU/Linux.
December 31st, 2006 at 10:18 am
I am more of an average user than a developer and wanted to give my point of view having used (and continuing to use) both windows (XP SP2) and Linux (Ubuntu edgy).
1. Not just for developers, amazingly useful for any user. Once you get the hang of it (in a few days), you never want to do things from a GUI when you can do it from the terminal.
2. A central repository with package managers is probably the most important reason why Linux is superior to Windows. No more searching for 3rd party applications, not knowing if ‘free’ means time limited demos or spyware or really free software. Sure, I love my apt too.
4. I too have 3d desktop (beryl) running smoothly and lots of other new things, more probably than windows users will see when they finaly get Vista.
5. You got it absolutely right there. I use an application to simulate multiple desktops on my windows pc at work, but it still is not the same as the real thing.
7. No reboots and no system crashes either.
10. Probably the most important reason that drove me to Linux. You are not anymore treated as a dumbo.
And by the way, Maki, you sure have to be kidding about something. I mean you cant really be using both systems and say something like the ‘using the mouse is faster than using the terminal’ or that you have not heard of proprietary formats in windows !
December 31st, 2006 at 11:16 am
Great rundown
December 31st, 2006 at 1:14 pm
1) Powershell closes the gap easily
2) Granted. It is nice that most Linux apps are free and some even are better than their proprietary counterparts.
3) Personal preference
4) WU is painless.
5) Personal preference
6) Granted.
7) Granted.
8) The list of people who look at their computer and bask in the openness of the its protocols is vanishingly small, my nerdy friend.
9) Granted. I think this is more a function of dumb users though.
10) Do you stand outside the library or store protesting the detector gates because it means they consider you to be a criminal? All I can say is, there are a hell of a lot of criminals out there.
December 31st, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Thanks everyone for the interesting, thoughtful comments.
I’ve seen this argument a few times now. Powershell still doesn’t compare to Gnome-terminal (or kterm), with the available Gnu (and other unixisms), at least for me. Given time, maybe it will grow on me (it took me years before I appreciated vim).
I actually have found add-ons for most of my nits for XP. The problem is that they’re add-ons, not part of the core distro (hence MS is missing out). For improved terminal goodness, for example, I use poderosa with Cygwin. It’s a vast improvement over the default shell, but I have to install it on every XP machine I work on (takes time).
Even with multi-desktops, there are many solutions for XP. The problem is mapping key bindings and features so that I can switch between them. The default Gnome/Metacity switcher is nice (as is KDE’s). The Window’s powertool is nowhere near as well done, and it breaks many applications (so I end up not using it).
Building this stuff into the base is why I personally find my Ubuntu desktop so much fun. Note that I still use XP regularly: it’s still a very reasonable OS.
December 31st, 2006 at 4:55 pm
OS X, Linux, Windows are all basically the same. I use VI on all of them.
December 31st, 2006 at 4:56 pm
ALL - the link I’ve provided to a page where i talk about some of the common misconceptions about Linux has been changed by the parses on this site. I’ve just noticed that my site was logging a lot of “page not found 404″ errors.
Guess what - when I’ve submitted my comments here, I’ve copied the URL for the article from the browser. When my comments appeared on the site after “moderation” the link was changed. I’ve created an alias for the malformed URL, so the right page would come up anyway.
http://www.hypersensory.com/linuxvswindows
To those who argued that Shell is almighty and powerful enough for anything - try to do something more fun than looking for a string of code in your files.
THE problem with shell is that the returned information can only be viewed as ASCII. So anything more complex than text of some sort, is impossible. Yes, i know i can make image or even watch a movie in ASCII, but who would do it more than once (to just check it out?).
Someone has mentioned image manipulation - i dare you to edit a picture or even draw one in shell in the same way it can be done in the most primitive editor in the world - MS Paint.
You just can’t do enough useful stuff in Shell that most people do in graphical interface. I’m not saying shell is useless, but it is just not as useful as GUI.
GUI is times and times again more powerful than shell, because people can receive and manage information on the screen easier.
December 31st, 2006 at 7:02 pm
While I as well use Linux, Unix, and Windows on a daily basis, I have to disagree with a few points from usability and scalability standpoints. Please note, I work in a large corporate environment where we have thousands of servers, and probably close to 100k desktops so my experiences may not hold true for smaller shops.
There are decent term emulators available for Windows, they are just not packaged with the distro from MS. I myself use putty and/or the f-secure client and have no issues getting everything done that I need to. Are all of the various clients free? No. but free isn’t always a requirement either.
There are ways to automate the build process for Windoes systems as well as Linux systems. I can have a new Windows based server built in under 3 hours to our corporate standards using automated methods, basically booting to a CD or DVD disk or image, supplying IP and hostname information and walking away. I can do this sitting in front of the machine or from 3000 miles away. Is it perfect? No. Does it work 99.9% of the time? You bet. We have a similar process for out standard Linux build that takes about the same time.
As stated before, Power toys from MS can handle all of the gripes here.
Frequesnt painless patching? Not on any platform! You try patching a couple hundred Linux boxes and you will see your productivity numbers drop significantly. Do you have to load more patches on Windows? Without a doubt. Can I use a product to automatically update those Windows boxes more easily than my Linux boxes? Also, without a doubt. There are more commercial products available to handle patch management for Windows than for Linux. We also have more issues with patches breaking binary compatibility for our Linux and Unix systems than with the Windows systems.
Multiple desktops? Power toys and/or additional monitors. I use both.
I use vim on Windows. I also use pspad (www.pspad.com) and pfedit, and of course, notepad in a pinch.
No reboots? yeah right. Windows systems do require more reboots for patching or updates, but in a large corporate environment we find that flaky code can exist in either environment. It does more damage to the Windows systems, but we do have to reboot the Linux systems at times too.
Open formats are open regardless of the platform. If there isn’t a Windows port, there is generally someone working on one. I haven’t had any issues finding what I need here as well.
If you look up the history of viruses (http://www.cknow.com/vtutor/HistoryofViruses.html) you will see that the first virus was written for the Apple II, the second written for Unix. Right now, Windows is a good target for script kiddies and the likes… in the future, who knows?
No arguments really, I find that advanced users have to work harder no matter what the focus to get the respect you deserve.
Bare in mind, I am not trying to argue with you on your points, mearly expand on them and offer a different or expanded perspective. I find there are pluses and minuses to all platforms and ultimately there is a reason they all still exist. I have yet to find the perfect platform for everything. I appreciate the hard work you put into your article as well.
December 31st, 2006 at 8:10 pm
I find it surprising that some are arguing that Windows even approaches Linux for package management–searching, installation, dependency management, UPDATES, are all infinitely easier with a central package repository which has thousands of packages and a majority of apps you’d ever want to install. This is faster and easier than google or download.com. And, if an app isn’t in your repository, you can often find it via google or freshmeat or any of numerous other sites. You can often find binaries in addition to source. (Yes, sometimes you have to deal with dependency hell if you do this. But Windows has DLL hell too!).
I’ve found deinstallation of packages from Linux repositories to be cleaner than deinstallation via add/remove programs in Windows. For the person on FreeBSD who has manually installed software, read instructions that came with the program. Oftentimes you can ‘make deinstall’ or similar (or never performa a make install & just put the binaries you’ve made in a subdirectory which you can later rm).
Linux does have many commercial apps. Check out many listed:
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Commercial-HOWTO.html
This is from 1999 & the number of apps has only increased. Also, commercial support infrastructures are quite common.
Maki’s anti-shell argument is a riot. The thing with Linux is that it offers you a choice–it does have a very powerful GUI, but also has a very powerful CLI. Windows had a relatively poor CLI by default. Text-based input can still be used to manipulate multimedia & you can listen to them from the CLI or can open them in a graphical viewer after having made or modified them in the CLI.
I’ll gladly take Maki’s challenge of graphical editing in CLI vs GUI. Except, I’ll up the odds: take 100 images, add a line to all of them, add a timestamp under that line, and resize them. Maki can you Paintbrush. I’ll use imagemagick.
This is trite, I know–the point is that Maki is making a false choice–noone HAS to use a CLI in Linux. They have the ability to choose to use a CLI when it would be more efficient and more effective.
December 31st, 2006 at 10:37 pm
I have to disagree with 2).
I’ve tried using SuSE and Ubuntu and I’ve run into the same brick wall both times, to whit: if it came with the distro and is pre-listed in the package manager - no problem, but if it is downloaded from the net, it isn’t going to happen. I’ve tried compiling from source, RPM’s, self-extracting binaries and not a single one of the half dozen programs is even close to working. I’ve read man pages, info pages, books by O’Reilly, Sybex and Wiley; I’ve religiously followed recipes from the web and had absolutely no joy of any kind.
The problem seems to me to be that installing unapproved software on Windows is designed to be something any idiot user can do (which has pluses and minuses to it, I know) and Unix is designed so that only the most adept and knowledgeable system administrators can install unapproved software on it.
January 1st, 2007 at 12:50 am
Hey there,
I work at Microsoft, so I might be a bit biased. :) Of couse I speak only for myself below, not my employer.
I used Linux (Gentoo) and FreeBSD back in college and I still use them occasionally. What I miss from Unix is the ease of the command line. Yes, Windows has cmd.exe and batch scripts and javascript and yes everything can be completed in Windows that can be completed in Unix. BUT–there’s a focus in the Unix world on making command-line tools easy to use that doesnt exist on Windows. The principle of least surprise applies to non-graphical as well as graphical user interfaces. rant off Hopefully PowerShell will do something here.
Thanks for posting this even-handed list.
Yours,
Philip
January 1st, 2007 at 9:41 am
“I’ve seen this argument a few times now. Powershell still doesn’t compare to Gnome-terminal (or kterm), with the available Gnu (and other unixisms), at least for me. Given time, maybe it will grow on me (it took me years before I appreciated vim).”
You obviously haven’t seen powershell manual. Man, UNIX shells don’t even compare to the new powershell console. They had the lead while there was old NT command prompt, but now with PowerShell, IMO they have definitely lost it. PS has far more advanced architecture. Haven’t you ever felt that passing data in text format is wrong way to do it?? Using regexp and other tools to separate data (from text) is wrong too. Machines aren’t working like that. They work best with binary data, and PS works just like that. It passes data through objects. And because it uses .net behind the scenes it has both the power and speed.
Also, from user’s point of view - MS has cleaned naming convention - unlike how it is in UNIX word where commands are shortened to ambiguous abbreviation with no common rules how to compose them and one has to learn all the commands that he needs, Microsoft has fixed that with “verb-object” naming convention (like ‘get-process’ instead ps, (also abbreviations are possible, so if you like you can use ‘ps’ too)). Also there is also lot less ‘mess’ that is common with UNIX commands.
January 1st, 2007 at 10:26 am
These lists are always flamebait and some are enlightening. The first problem is being correct in your posting, the second is stepping out of your perspective. This post does neither so it is destined to bait status.
We should work up some statistics on the flames in these things. The number of people who feel like they have to defend their OS, The number of people who must insult the original poster, the number of strawman arguments… it would be interesting to see if these rise and fall over the years.
IMHO all of the OSs offer something unique and nice. I use Windows because I am most familiar with it and I have to use it at work. I use Linux because its free and I like to learn new things. I like both.
Most of the benefit in any OS is in how it implements something rather than what is implemented. There are work arounds to just about everything and eventually something new is going to be ported in every possible direction.
Overall I’d like Linux to win because it is the underdog, and I always root for the underdog.
January 1st, 2007 at 10:52 am
Comments closed - Feel free to write about this on your own blog.